05-23-26 carib
| PS: I still hold family properties there, not in centre: prices are not higher than 15 years ago... That is what I mean by "cheap". |
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05-23-26 carib
| Panas: I mean.. it's way cheaper than Milano.. and Cascais.. |
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05-22-26 Merlino
| Pana, fwiw I was living in the EUR. 1960s Olimpic Games zone. Large park and a lake. I liked the place although not comparable in charm (and in price) to the historic center, which is kind of center of the world for those able to see it |
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05-22-26 panasonic
| Carib, when you say cheap, includes historic center? |
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05-22-26 carib
Panas: depends what you are looking for.
I used to live in the historic centre.
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05-22-26 panasonic
| Pilly, valid then valid now! Cheers haver. |
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05-22-26 panasonic
"RE in Rome is very cheap."
Tks! Worth a visit, any area(s) you would go first? |
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05-22-26 carib
| Merlino: such, unfortunately, is Italy, and that explains why I am not there. |
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05-22-26 carib
| Hi Panas: I have not been living in Italy for the last 30 years, but in Milan and Rome there are decent international private schools, and decent private hospitals. RE in Rome is very cheap. not so in Milano. |
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05-22-26 pillz
"Let me first tell you one thing: it doesn't matter what the world says about Israel, it doesn't matter what is said about us elsewhere. The only thing that matters is that we can exist here, in the land of our ancestors. And if we don't show the Arabs that the price to pay for the murder of Jews is high, we won't survive."
Words of Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion in 1953. A former leader of the Haganah (the ancestor of the IDF), he was one of the founders of the State of Israel, whose independence he proclaimed on May 14, 1948. |
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05-22-26 Merlino
in many places, including Tuscany, you can still buy castles for a song..
.......................
Perhaps due to practical problems to renovate and give a use to them
Almost thirty years ago I was involved in the renovation of an old castle in Tuscany which included a good piece of beautiful land, to convert it into a luxurios hotel and resort.
Local politics, permissions, quarrels, etc. were a nightmare. Peyton place cubed. End result: the old castle is still as it was, unused as far as I know. Nobody benefited I presume, everybody lost. |
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05-22-26 panasonic
Carib, Miami you have options for wealthy, ultra-wealthy and billionaires.
Here works like this: give us your max. and realtor will offer very nice options within your budget. |
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05-22-26 panasonic
Carib, my reply was in reference to good schools and hospitals in Milan.
Italy has very reasonably priced places to live, but with good hospitals and int'l schools? |
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05-22-26 carib
| BTW: how much does a penthouse in one of the new good condos in Miami beach cost now? |
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05-22-26 carib
| Panas: real estate in very attractive, wealthy places, by definition is expensive. Milan is the only place in Italy (essentially) where real estate prices have not remained depressed in the entire XXI century. But in many places, including Tuscany, you can still buy castles for a song.. |
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05-22-26 victor
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05-22-26 victor
savo, of course not. :-))
imagine a guy like sanchez, hailed as a hero by the left, offering such to rich people :-))
it's not a left like the german SPD, that forms the Grand Coalition with CDU, and everything is OK.
sanchez is the kind of left that believes in ALWAYS voting against the investiture of any and all PP leaders. always.
i mean, he was under pressure to do away with the golden visa, because it favors rich people.. so he did. |
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05-22-26 panasonic
| "Going long Jellyfish" :-)) |
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05-22-26 panasonic
"Danilo Alfonso Diazgranados"
Yes Vic, he used Plus Ultra to extract gold and who knows what else, probably same cartel connected to the case of 1.3 metric tons of pure cocaine found in Air France flight in 2013.
I checked many times the gate during my trips in CCS airport to count how many passengers boarded the flight, it was notorious that each flight had only between 10 and 20 passengers.
We all knew those flights were abt. "something else". |
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05-22-26 savo
| victor.. i do not know what programs spain offer... but i imagine no non-dom |
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05-22-26 savo
| i would love to see separation all over the world... |
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05-22-26 victor
the dt effect :-))
//
Alberta Set To Hold Vote On Whether To Separate From Canada
The Canadian state of Alberta is set to hold a non binding referendum on whether to separate from the country after a group submitted hundreds of thousands of signatures with that goal.
The announcement was made by Alberta Premier Danielle Smith and marks the first time in the country's history in which a province different than Quebec seeks to break from Canada. |
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05-22-26 spal
Ships trapped in the Gulf are accumulating barnacles, algae and jellyfish.
Going long Jellyfish ... for the win. |
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05-22-26 panasonic
| Carib, real estate in Milano area was very expensive last time I visited. |
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05-22-26 carib
| Victor: that is fully correct.. and from Portugal and Greece too, I would add. |
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05-22-26 victor
savo, reuters yesterday posted something nobody has mentioned so far.
looking at the period 2022-2025:
Spain saw strong growth in investments related to intellectual property, up 23.7%.
//
Italy could take economic growth lessons from Spain, stats bureau says
https://www.reuters.com/business/italy-could-take-economic-growth-lessons-spain-stats-bureau-says-2026-05-21/
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05-22-26 carib
Savo: the short answer is: close to none.
But you have international schools and good hospitals in Milano. |
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05-22-26 victor
savo, all people want is not to have to pay taxes on offshore income, assets and cap gains
//
does spain offer such a program? :-))
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05-22-26 savo
| victor.. saylor is the only buyer... |
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05-22-26 savo
and there are so many beautiful places in which to live in spain, with good food, affordable housing, good medical and multilingual schools.
Families need schools and pensioners need medical.
how many of those italian municipalities have schools in english, german, spanish or french?
Pensioners do not need schools... ok... but need good medical. Even if they have international insurance... how many of those municipalities have ample medical offer?
I think that in the end all these schemes are half baked... all people want is not to have to pay taxes on offshore income, assets and cap gains. The old UK non dom. Is it that difficult to replicate?
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05-22-26 victor
| savo, interesting how BTC is dropping in spite of the ongoing bullish stock market. |
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05-22-26 victor
pana, have you heard of Danilo Alfonso Diazgranados ?
he's one of the implicated venezuelans with zp. |
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05-22-26 victor
pana, yes, correct, but still.. it was the same before decoupling.
a related theory i've heard: the spanish language has become more popular worldwide in the past 4 years, so that is one of the main drivers for decoupling. |
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05-22-26 panasonic
Besides Savo's post I would add:
Over 500million spanish speakers live outside Spain vs only 20 million italian speakers living outside Italy.
Golden visa will probably draw more attention in Italy from here, but those with visa in Spain can renew for 5 years periods subject initial investment os maintained.
Very important what Savo posted about citizenship only 2 years after residence for latinos. |
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05-22-26 victor
spal, hallelujah!!
//
but instead you get a sanchez.. unless sanchez is the driver for decoupling.
is he ??? |
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05-22-26 Merlino
Argentina’s trade performance continues to impress. April’s merchandise report revealed a US$2.7bn surplus, following a US$2.5bn surplus in March and setting new records for the month since 1990. This strong result was driven by a sustained surge in exports and subdued imports, propelling the year-to-date surplus to US$8.3bn
...............................
The other face of this is a multiyear economic recession in general activities excluding extractive/low employment ones like oil, mining, agriculture and a consequent contractionary consumption specially for the former traditional Argentinian middle class.
Besides what mentioned above Financial activities (for gov friends) are king and help to improve the likely false general GDP statistics
A very criminal and corrupt anti liberal government (as interest rates and Fx are controlled) is in charge and unfortunately any visible opposition does not look better/good either
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05-22-26 victor
| hann, thanks, yes, correct, 1-4. but all readily available before spain decoupled from the rest. |
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05-22-26 carib
| Savo: I have not investigated details.. but I guess you find a financial institution.. provide a capital.. and get an annuity in exchange. If interested, you should get in contact with the italian tax advisor. |
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05-22-26 spal
Savo - excellent post on Spain ... I almost got a plane to immigrate.
There is no macron in Spain.. no Starmer..no Trump ... hallelujah!!
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05-22-26 savo
carib.. that is fantastic...
how does a colores fabricate a pension? |
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05-22-26 savo
pillz... that is the main reason imo, as gold gives no yield ..
i think that is the official explanation... the unofficial is simply that the gold/silver markets are intervened by the UST/FED.
The US can not launch another war with a budget deficit of 30% of the budget... bonds at almost 5%..the tariff mess to refund and let gold run loose. It would have gone to 10k..20k and beyond.
Very easy to sell a metric ton of gold in the futures market and plunge gold 20%. They even made a profit. |
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05-22-26 hann
I have a spain gv and so do many others from Ph. I got mine 7-8 years ago. Many piled in during the final months prior to the program end.
Probably don't spend enough time there (BCN) but:
1) as I understand it Spain gets gas from Algeria so less badly hit than nordstream customers (germany etc)
2) salaries, including for programmers, designers etc, are ridiculously low. Probably 1/8 of Bay Area, CA. It's a plus for corporates.
3) cost of living remains low, though there's a high tier available.
4) I like BCN as a base to go around France etc.
From my investigation, it does not seem worth it to get a passport just for the short line at the airport. Tax, wealth tax etc. Up till last year if could trace a grandparent/great grand parent from spain, you could get citizenship without the 2 year residency requirement (which is a tax exposure).
I still like it in spite of the constant pickpocket/phone theft threat.
Recently we prefer Japan. We have a place in Fukuoka, no residency, no bank account, no drivers license. But still really high QOL, excellent food, prices very reasonable for most things. |
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05-22-26 victor
savo, in terms of negatives, how about this one?
//
Thousands of Spaniards receive Hacienda’s dreaded ‘fear letters’ – and the fines can reach 20%
Published: 30 Oct 2025
https://euroweeklynews.com/2025/10/30/thousands-of-spaniards-receive-haciendas-dreaded-fear-letters-and-the-fines-can-reach-20/
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05-22-26 carib
| It'on all foreign source income. |
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05-22-26 carib
Savo:
https://www.imidaily.com/europe/italys-7-flat-tax-for-foreign-pensioners-just-got-a-lot-more-interesting/ |
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05-22-26 victor
pt, thanks, but italy and portugal also have a nomad visa.
other countries also have it.
savo, right, thanks. i've heard those points.
also another one that would tie into what you said: spain is one of the main entry points of illegal drugs in europe and, thus, also has some of the cheapest drug prices in europe, making it attractive.
but still, most of those points were still valid before 2022, before spain decoupled from the rest of europe.
the one exception would be #3, present legislature started in august 2023:
3) The current legislature has been unable to approve a budget |
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05-22-26 savo
meanwhile in the land of Messi and the world champions...
JP:
Argentina’s trade performance continues to impress. April’s merchandise report revealed a US$2.7bn surplus, following a US$2.5bn surplus in March and setting new records for the month since 1990. This strong result was driven by a sustained surge in exports and subdued imports, propelling the year-to-date surplus to US$8.3bn—up sharply from just US$1.3bn a year ago. Breaking down the trade balance by segment, the energy balance contributed US$1.1bn to the YTD rise, while the non-energy saw a US$5.8bn improvement, mainly explained by higher agro-related exports (+US$2.7bn) and mining (+US$1.5bn), as well as lower imports |
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05-22-26 savo
add no insatiable industrial military complex to feed... no wall street upon which to immolate the well being of the rest of the country...no medicare and medicaid and obama care no fanny and freddie... no endless wars... no military support for other countries endless wars... no veternas.. no space program.. no nasa... no dotcom buble... no metadata bubble.. no ai bubble... no central bank... no bidens.. no bushes...no cheneys..no blairs... all those guys care about is a good beer and shrimps at sunset watching the sea...
Think for example that health and education are provided at the Community level... so no grandiose NHS with 3 years waiting lists.
and that is how countries prosper... |
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05-22-26 patient-trader
they used to call spain "the sick man of europe"
...
Victor, after the financial crisis Spain became very cheap. Cheap office space, low cost of living and plenty of highly-educated unemployed young people. That made Spain attractive for startups and international companies. IT offshoring, game developers etc. In 2022 Spain introduced digital nomad visa.
Such effects can help a country for a long time. E.g. the German "Schröder" 2010 reforms helped Germany for more than a decade to stay competitive. |
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05-22-26 savo
victor... some things that come to mind...
1) the president of the government in spain ha less power than people think. Power is very decentralized to the autonomous communities. There is no macron in Spain.. no Starmer..no Trump.
2) Spain is very open to Latam immigration who integrate unnoticed with the rest of the population, no language barrier, no ghettos. Those people arrive to work. Spain has a visa program for certain Latam countries whereby after two years of living in spain legally or illegally can access official documentation and remain in the country.
3) The current legislature has been unable to approve a budget... meaning that the country is still running with the 2022 budget. That is good.. no weird inventions every year... no big beautiful bill, no more pork every year, etc...
4) The mediterreanean coast continues being a magnet to people from the rest of europe. Construction, services, hospitality, benefit from increased population.
5) Southern Mediterranean weather.
6) Medical services and school in all languages with IB and AAA Levels, French baccalaureate, etc..providing good ramp for universities in europe and the US.
7) Everybody wants to live in Marbella. Developments at all levels... from the very accessible to the ultra luxurious.
I do not think you find 1 to 7 as a package anywhere else in Europe.
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05-22-26 victor
savo, yes, no dispute there.
can i get your opinion re spain, given your knowledge of the place?
why is it growing more than the rest?
how is it explained?
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